Do these avatars rock? Suck? Other? YOU be the judge
Posted on: June 3, 2008Here's a fun survey that only takes a few minutes to complete. It's "hot or not" style with plenty of pictures. The benefit to you? Well, we're (Linden Lab) going to refresh the default avatar selection with something more diverse, kewl, and hopefully awesome.
Sucky avatars cause no end of shame and embarrassment, so yeah, fine starting points are important. We need your help — e.g., what would you have preferred if you were new to Second Life again? What would you want your friends to start with?
Note that this survey is casual and tentative. Formal info will appear on the Official Second Life Blog in the future, I'm just helping get the word out. But, it'll give us a quick, direct pulse on what's happening NOW. Thanks to you.
So don't hesitate, TAKE THE SURVEY!
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Be my friend!
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:41 PM PDT
Hi Torley,
Thanks for your great blog! I'm a PhD student researching identity/personality and avatar customisation in SL and I would love to get a copy of the data you collect if that's possible (including the pics).
Thanks
Seeker
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:47 PM PDT
While these almost all of these avatars (who exactly has that recurring harlequin fetish over at Linden Lab?
are a HUGE improvement over the current selection of default avis, I couldn't help but wonder at the potential confusion for new users over attached prims (such as the prim hair, skirts or shoes that these avis sport now).
I can imagine the support requests and/or mentor hair-pulling the first ten times that a new user accidentally detaches her skirt or hair and wanders about the grid in bewilderment.
I assume there'll be a link included in the Library to a vidtut to resolve that?
June 3rd, 2008 at 4:49 PM PDT
That survey had me laughing so hard
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:01 PM PDT
The first thing most new avatars do (As I have seen while working CSI) is detach most/all of their attachments. Then they wander around and don't know what's happened to them.
Another reoccurring problem is that when newbies have attachment hair/skirt/other, they do not understand why the *sliders* don't change it. This is a very huge learning curve for new players. There is also a lot of questions as to why they cannot change their skin color when they start out wearing a texture skin.
While these avatars are super great, and I would love newbies to be able to wear them, I think it would just confuse them a lot! It would be great if the outfits were available in the library for them.
June 3rd, 2008 at 6:57 PM PDT
OMG - I hated them all! The prim skirts were badly fit, and what was up with that business guy's feet? They were sticking out the toe of his shoes?
Come on, there are lots of excellent content creators on the grid with their finger on the pulse of what's hot. Let's see what THEY can come up with, hmmm…?
Sorry, Torley, that I couldn't be more positive. It just wasn't possible.
June 3rd, 2008 at 9:44 PM PDT
Done and Done Torley! Boy, some of them REALLY sucked, but loved the Harlies though. Hmmm But there SHOULD be a Watermelon Man/Woman AV in there as Well :>)
-S
June 4th, 2008 at 3:28 AM PDT
Overall I liked them all, although I should pay more attention to shoes (most of the male feet/shoes looked huge)…
June 4th, 2008 at 3:39 AM PDT
I agree with Princess. I can appreciate where you guys were going on this but I don't think you went far enough with most of them.
That said I liked the fact that my default av was fairly minimal at first, that way I could discover my own style as I went along. Although for people that don't want to be bothered with creating their own look the more stylised av's I am sure will be welcomed.
BTW I am surprised you didn't create any Neko av's, considering this look is seemingly sweeping the grid right now I am sure we will all end up with ears and tails by 2009.
June 4th, 2008 at 3:54 AM PDT
I liked these avis in the main - apart from the harlequin. I imagine that a newbie walking around in some of these avis won't get as hard a time as previous incarnations, but at the same time - free expression is to some the name of the game in SL. Yes, it can take a while for a newbie to come to that realisation, but an inkling and a hint is given here at the possibilities available for slider abuse on an OI.
I think in terms of integration and immersion into the community - these are huge steps forward, and will help retain new users who would otherwise be put off be either not being able to work out why they look quite so odd, or frustration at not being able to or knowing how to make themselves look better.
June 4th, 2008 at 5:40 AM PDT
A lot more variation there than the current set for sure - and generally better. Though for the most part have to say I was in the neither/nor camp.
I did like the robot made out of cardboard boxes tho
June 4th, 2008 at 5:56 AM PDT
I think at this point over 20,000 new residents have traded in their LL avatars for the free avatars I give away. Did LL bother to go to the community to get real designers to make the new avatars?
Will any of this matter when Time Warner and the other ISPs limit SL usage to no more than 24 hours a month? (SL will be history if they succeed)
June 4th, 2008 at 6:38 AM PDT
1st, THANKS for the feedback. 2nd, if you haven't commented yet but have something to say, PLEASE do share. I'm here and going to share this with the right Lindens.
@Seeker: I don't know if that's possible at this stage because this survey is both (1) informal and (2) we should've asked people to consent at the beginning if their responses were gonna be shared. It's important to be upfront about privacy concerns like that. But I'll pass your request along.
@Aenea: I'm definitely on-call to create video tutorials for what's needed. Prim attachments just often happen to be superior surrogates to default mesh/clothing, eh? I also get notified of hot support requests, but it's always great to forsee possible usability probs.
@Colin: BUT WHY, MAN?
@Washu: Thanks for your perspective. THANKS a lot. I agree there's a longtime cognitive disconnect and the technical difference between mesh/attachment isn't clear. Non-trivial changes to the appearance controls would have to be made to resolve that, but some remedial steps might include better notification upfront.
@Princess: So, which avatars do you love? URLs to 'em, I insist knowing your tastes better!
@Sabastian: Hee hee, I don't know if there's enough watermelon devotees, but I'm glad you took the survey.
Thanx all again!
June 4th, 2008 at 7:02 AM PDT
Sadly I can't even get past the first page of the survey because it doesn't offer Washington DC as a location option. Guess I'll have to enter a fake state and mess up the data.
June 4th, 2008 at 7:16 AM PDT
Hi Torley, took the survey. Question: Will the 4-legged avatars (dragon and small mammal) come with 4-legged AO's? Also, I voted for some of the more generic looking ones because I think it may make the transition into SL easier for some. Hated the World of Warcraft looking ones but that's just me.
June 4th, 2008 at 8:35 AM PDT
For those wondering (I've been asked a lot!) the little dragons are indeed small, about six feet long and perhaps two feet tall.
But you did't hear it from me.
June 4th, 2008 at 10:04 AM PDT
Some of your comments FALSELY ended up in my spam queue. I JUST approved them, and here's more replies!
@Nuno: I've heard that several times now. You're onto something.
@Elina: Point me to pictures of avatars you LOVE! And I'm personally big into Neko/Cosplay/Otaku trends and know there are plenty of existing cultures in SL which celebrate it. I'll be sure to bring that, and tinies ('cause I got asked about that too) up.
@Patch: Thx for taking the survey! Hehe, I had a feeling that robot would appeal to your sketchy (compliment) style.
@Ann: "Did LL bother to go to the community to get real designers to make the new avatars?" Yes, there are some big and other acclaimed names in there. I haven't seen your avies in-depth but pictures and SLURL would be great. Heard the news about bandwidth caps, that sux.
@Paulo: Arg! Yeah, just enter a fakey for now, it won't be TOO bad. Thanks.
@Exosius: We don't have true quadruped skeletal structure but if we were going to offer 4-legged avatars, then I'd personally say it ONLY makes sense to give them convincing AOs. Otherwise they'd just walk all nasty.
@Psyra: Thx for chiming in.
I did hear some concerns about whether those avatars were pictured to-scale. No, they're not.
June 4th, 2008 at 11:08 AM PDT
I loved most of them Torley, except the harlequins. Creepy clown references come to mind. *shudders*
It's nice to see the lab giving new residents some cool choices. As a mentor, some additional lessons on attachments would probably make sense in the orientation process.
Can't have new residents walking around naked. Cause that NEVER happens. *wink wink
*huggles*
Bailey
June 4th, 2008 at 6:50 PM PDT
Hey Torley,
I took the survey and I especially liked the non human, and non modern Avatars. It shows the variety of Avatars you can meet on the grid and shows what can be built in-world.
Keep the businessperson and other "normal" human avatars as well though, for those who want a less challenging experience and appearance.
While I do agree that having starting avatars with attachments can be intimidating for newbies, attachments are also becoming more and more common and having them learn about them early on *could* be a good thing.
can I offer a possible non-techie oriented solution to this problem?…
Avatar difficulties. Set them up like a traffic light…
i.e. "These Green Avatars are easiest to use and we recommend them for people who have never experienced Virtual Worlds before…"
No attachments… basic default skins, simple clothes etc…
"These Yellow Avatars have a few more options but are still designed to be easy to use. Perfect if you've played video games or have visited other virtual worlds in the past…"
A custom skin (with instructions), a simple accessory like say a briefcase or perhaps something fun and wacky like a laser pistol or sword (non functioning prop, of course)
"These Red Avatars are very cool but they ARE hard to use under some circumstances. We DO NOT recommend these avatars If you've never played video games or experienced other virtual worlds… "
Dragons and four-legged furries for example, with custom skins and lots of attachments.
Of course these examples are over simplified, but you get the idea…
June 5th, 2008 at 1:53 AM PDT
[...] >> Participer au sondage de Linden Torley Posted in A voir, Fun. [...]
June 5th, 2008 at 5:29 AM PDT
Let's try to add a comment again since it went wrong the last time. And keep in mind, I did this thing yesterday.
1) Kudos for racial diversity. That was urgently needed - I predicted Al Sharpton would be on your case soon for offering only white or animal avis. That never happened, but still. I could have made that call to brother Al - and yall know I aint frontin'
2) Harlequins to replace those hakajurus? Drop the idea - I don't see that coming from anywhere in-world or in RL, trendwise. In other words - there's no reason for it. (Although I must note that my knowledge of trends is not all-encompassing, of course)
3) What happened to the classic furry with the humanoid body and the animal head? And is there a Neko choice? Neko's a big thing in SL right now as I'm sure you know. Bigger than… ummmm… you guessed it, harlequins.
4) Some choice in normal looking avis, great. The normal look, however boring, is still the norm on the grid, I think. And it offers the best neutral base to start personalizing.
Hope my insights might help deciding things there in San Fran.
June 5th, 2008 at 7:07 AM PDT
[...] Torley Linden has posted a survey with all of the new possible avatars so we can start making our opinions known before the formal (official) info is posted to the SL blog. [...]
June 5th, 2008 at 3:52 PM PDT
[...] En: Torley Lives, [...]
June 6th, 2008 at 4:48 AM PDT
Much better selection of avatars, although what is with the four almost identical robots and the harlequins? LOL. I liked most of them, especially the 'older' business person avs. I do suggest getting someone other than the Tableau folks to design the fashionista-style avs though. I love their style but it is not everyone's cup of tea. I agree we need more furries and nekos in there. Something more representative of the different SL cultures perhaps? Like a gay neko furry robot dragon with slave papers sitting on a giant sex bed. :-S
June 6th, 2008 at 5:35 AM PDT
I liked the "green/yellow/red" difficulty selection idea in the comments.
I hope you are also thinking of a "one from column A, one from column B" type of grid for newbies.
Column A would be select skin tone and hair color combo (and or nonhuman avs). Column B could select between standard casual, business, or subculture clothing. Column C would be for female/male selection, or young/old, or something like that.
I think this might give lot of flexibility without an loooong parade of different avatars to wade through. (or to program into the interface!)
June 6th, 2008 at 4:30 PM PDT
I want to see broader noses — like mine — on the Africans. Nothing crazy, but just not a European nose that's been painted brown.
On all the women avatars that were wearing make-up, they looked a little over done, like the Avon Lady was a little too heavy-handed with the make-overs. I think less is better. Let the newbies pile on the lipstick and eye-shadow by themselves if they want to.
The harlequins rock by the way.
June 6th, 2008 at 5:35 PM PDT
I just want to say that in response to criticisms about things not fitting etc, on the avatars that we made at Adam n Eve, that the avatar shapes have been changed by LL staff and are not as we sent them. If you change the shape this can make shoes and prims not fit as well. This may be the case with other ill fitting items included also. They could have been photographed in better lighting too!
June 6th, 2008 at 5:52 PM PDT
Fun? Jesus H Torley, you nearly gave me a heart attack there……having created several of these avatars, and then seeing them literally bastardized is not fun, I repeat, not fun, especially when my reputation is there for criticism and not yours but good luck with your incessant tinkering.
June 6th, 2008 at 7:35 PM PDT
Thanks (again) graciously for the latest comments!
@Bailey: Thanks fo' taking the time to check it out. I'm committed to doing a special video tutorial and working with LL's Documentation Team as needed to make more sense of attachments. And yeah, we can't have startling nekkids!! :O
@Dex: Part of the big challenge here is how diverse SL's existing audience/community is, as well as which particular focuses/segments we should concentrate on in the future. Like the ol' saying goes, "Can't please everyone". I note what you said about attachments too… I'm hearing that a LOT after having put out this survey, so it's a strong sticking point.
I'm not sure if a "traffic light" system is needed if someone is taught the principles beforehand; BUT I do agree new Residents should be well-informed on *how* to use an avatar before they start going around inworld with it.
@Laetizia: Yes, "racial/ethnic/cultural diversity" kept coming up! Second Life's increasingly international; we also hope to find out geographic demographics of which avatars are preferred. Thanks for your thoughts — no neko choice currently but I've heard several requests for more of them and anime-oriented avatars.
@Georgette: Your feelings on this matter are appreciated! LOL @ what sounds like the pseudo-sum of scandalous SL cliches. I think it's "slave silks", but I know what you mean. Almost. Srsly tho, there's a lot more out there than that. Like tinies.
@cyn: I don't think the grid idea has really been brought up before — I'm glad you did. Sounds like it'd be a worthwhile intermediary until a fluid web appearance editor (which we don't have yet) is a possibility…
@Musa: Helpful and detailed comments! /me remembers long ago how we lacked quality ethnic skins, and making them more available to those who're interested is a def. win.
@sachi & Damen: Thanks, I was unaware. I apologize by association
for any visual distortion/unflatteringness that was beyond your control, and will be sure to let the right Lindens know. And then some.
June 7th, 2008 at 12:27 AM PDT
They have slave papers too, Torley (aww you're so innocent!). And you got tinies covered by the dwagon and cardboard box man (my pal has this av already and it's adorable). Def need some furry and neko avs in there though. And Melon Man.
June 7th, 2008 at 8:22 AM PDT
That is really unfortunate about someone altering the work of designers. Why have designers expend time if someone is just going to go and alter things?
Why have the survey if your just going to release the new avatars? They are sitting in the library under clothing now.
The effort by LL to make this set of new avatars is by far commendable. The willingness of these designers to freely give their time and work to help deserves our deep gratitude (and should be respected). Giving new residents an array of choices to help them feel good about themselves is critical to retention as it lessens the perceived cost of satisfactory entry. Now we need to figure out how to make the OI process a snap to get through and how to make the UI somewhat easier to learn. The work on the landmarks and navigation project will help and I am looking forward to the community helping with the UI via participating in the new SL-UX discussion list.
June 7th, 2008 at 11:08 PM PDT
[...] Torley is now running an informal survey on which of these we like, he says that later there will be an official announcement/survey. [...]
June 8th, 2008 at 9:42 AM PDT
@Georgette: Ha, my curiosity is awkwardly piqued by said "slave papers". XD
@Ann Otoole: The avatars themselves haven't been fully included into the registration flow yet. And changes are still possible. Glad to hear about your enthusiasm for helping!
June 8th, 2008 at 3:23 PM PDT
That was one lonnng survey! Nice to see they are thinking about changing though.
I wish they included comments so you they could improve their selection as they went along. Or a way to hop back in the survey and change your vote. For example, there was only one maybeish kid in there. I had already given her the highest score, but what if I didn't to wait for something better and reached the end of the survey?
Oh a technical note: maybe a little bit smaller images? Even on a 24" monitor I still needed to scroll.
June 10th, 2008 at 11:55 PM PDT
[...] the full Torley Linden article about the survey, please free to click here. By Sheryl in Articles .::. You can follow any responses to this entry through [...]
June 11th, 2008 at 3:32 AM PDT
I took the survey (don't know if it's too late or not, but wanted to see some of the things under consideration).
Damen, I'm used to seeing real BAD avatar shots, and my brain automatically adjusts… that said, I did recognize a few I thought came from you two, and they look interesting, despite the bad photo job. *grins*
I like the non-humans (of course, being an in-world metamorph), as well as some of the human ones. That first one? Dear gods, Avon lady gone mad! Outfit ok, but makeup? Just makes me want to run in terror.
I like the color-coding idea of avatar selection - green / yellow / red are fairly universal - but "Easy", "Advanced" and "Expert Only" would probably be better labels with much less ambiguity. (They use simaler labels on ski slopes, and for good reason…)
Having a wider selection of default avatars (and OOO! BETTER SKINS!) will help a LOT towards making new users feel more comfortable.
Though it'll make spotting the newbie more difficult, lol…
July 19th, 2008 at 6:32 PM PDT
On one hand it's a pity there are only a few designers who got to participate in creating this batch of new avatars… but on the other hand, it's kinda sad for these avatars that didn't make it to the new default. Like the rat and the female adventurer one (which both have a counterpart that got included). And… wut, no furries? At least have a hippo or something. ^_^
I also like the idea of grading avatars by user expertise needed, though I'm too lazy to check if this is implemented (doesn't want to litter LL's database with alts… XD). In a way LL still achieved this by putting the attachment-everywhere one in the Inventory Library though. Kudos!